Topics: Pro-terrorist protests in Australia;
08:35AM AEST
1 October 2024
Stephen Cenatiempo: The Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister, Simon Birmingham, joins us now. Simon. Good morning.
Simon Birmingham: Good morning. Stephen, good to be with you.
Stephen Cenatiempo: It’s now gotten to the point now where no longer can these people hide behind being pro-peace or pro-Palestine or pro-Lebanon. They’re clearly pro-Hamas and pro-Hezbollah. When you say that the government needs to go further, though, how much further and what can we actually do under our current legislation?
Simon Birmingham: Well, Stephen, we pressured the government and ultimately, they moved to put in place laws that very clearly ban hate speech, hate symbols, the type of things that terrorists use, or neo-Nazis use to promote and incite hatred, vilification and ultimately violence in our communities. Those laws make clear that symbols such as the Hezbollah symbol, the Hamas symbol, or indeed the swastika when used inappropriately, can be in and of itself a crime. That’s what the intent of those laws was for. We expect that the government should be ensuring that police and prosecutors do their job independently as such, agencies must but do their job fully to look at that footage, to weed out those who were waving around those terrorist symbols, flags and insignia, and to ensure that they feel the full force of the law. And if there are found to be gaps in those laws. Peter Dutton’s been clear that we would support swift action to address those gaps.
Stephen Cenatiempo: So, the question remains, though, if these laws are in place, and my understanding is they came into effect in January, why would the AFP and I know that they’ve now backflipped on this, but why would the I guess first comment from the Australian Federal Police be well we don’t know if these people will actually committed a crime. If indeed, being out there in a protest and displaying these symbols is against the Criminal Code.
Simon Birmingham: Well, I understand the AFP’s position that the laws have not been tested through courts yet, but there always has to be a first time. And the intent of the Parliament, I believe, was very clear at the time, and I would hope that the AFP, under direction from the government, would be ensuring that they act to uphold those laws with an understanding of the intent of the Parliament, which was to ban the use of terrorist symbols, flags, insignia in ways that can incite violence and division in our community. And you know, I heard Tony Burke, the Home Affairs Minister, making comments earlier this morning where he was seeking to say, you know, why is it that Peter Dutton is more concerned about what’s happening in the Middle East than middle Australia? Well, the message for the government is actually that these protests were happening in Australia. The waving of these terrorist symbols is happening in Australia. The attempt to create division, to incite antisemitism and to drive hatred is occurring in Australia and in the name and interests of social cohesion and safety in Australia the government should be taking a strong stance to stamp out these activities.
Stephen Cenatiempo: But the problem is that since the 7th of October and we’re now coming up to the first on a first anniversary of those horrendous attacks in Israel, is that there’s been the government hasn’t been firm in its position on this. I’ve described it as at worst schizophrenic or at best schizophrenic, at worst mealy mouthed. The responses. I mean, even the Prime Minister yesterday saying, oh well, it’s very concerning, but surely more than concern is required here.
Simon Birmingham: Well, that is indeed part of the criticism that we have of the government and that particularly many, especially in Australia’s Jewish community have. That October 7th saw the most heinous and horrific crimes committed. And yet, within 24 hours, there were protests on the streets on the steps of the Sydney Opera House that included the most vile of slogans and language being cast around. The government should have been swift and clear from that moment onwards in relation to its support for the Jewish community, its condemnation of antisemitism, the need to ensure that every possible law that can be used to call out and address those who propagate that type of hateful speech and action is deployed. And that is why we’ve been very clear all along. And it’s just tragic that our country, and sadly, too many others around the world to have seen the rise of antisemitism and this type of hatred get out of control in the last 12 months.
Stephen Cenatiempo: Simon, I don’t know if you can answer this question, but the average punter out there would be looking at these situations. We saw the you know, there was the riots outside a church in western Sydney when a preacher was stabbed recently. We saw, as you say, the protests on the steps of the Opera House. We’ve now seen Sydney and Melbourne are overrun with these pro-Hezbollah protests. Why don’t police affect arrests at the time? Why is it always an after the event situation where they’ll then go back and look at video footage and try and identify the people? When, you know, most of us out here are thinking, well, wouldn’t it be easier just to when you see these crimes being committed, arrest them at the time?
Simon Birmingham: Well, these go to operational matters and it’s for the police and police ministers and state and territory levels to justify and explain that. But I understand the sentiment from many Australians who see and look at those scenes and think, well, why isn’t there action? Of course, police are mindful of trying to keep civil order at the time to not create violent situations that could see innocent people put into harm’s way. But I think there is a need for people to be made an example of that. Ultimately, our laws are there to also create a deterrence effect. And for that deterrence to work, those laws have to be upheld. And that is why it’s crucial that there be seen to be thorough, proper investigations, that there should be prosecutions, and that if for some reason, police and prosecutors determine that’s not possible after we’ve seen such obvious breaches of what the Parliament intended to ban, then those laws need to be swiftly tightened.
Stephen Cenatiempo: If Anthony Albanese, Tony Burke and Penny Wong have an epiphany overnight and change their position on this and finally do show leadership, I wonder if we can put this genie back in the bottle now, though. I mean, particularly the fear amongst the Jewish community where we see, you know, preschools with armed guards out the front now. And, you know, I mean, I talked to members of the leaders in the Jewish community on a regular basis on this program who talk about the very real anxiety within the communities that can’t be rebuilt overnight.
Simon Birmingham: No, look, these things can’t be turned around overnight. And the security concerns that Jewish Australians have had predate October 7th but have only heightened. And ultimately, in a country like Australia, no child should be going to school where it’s necessary for those schools to be surrounded by armed guards. Our ambition should be for each and every child, be they of Jewish faith or any other faith or no faith, to have the opportunity to attend the schools of their parent’s choice. And to do so in complete safety and confidence about their wellbeing and the need for a concerted effort that won’t work overnight but does require sustained leadership to support these communities is essential.
Stephen Cenatiempo: Simon, thanks for speaking to us this morning.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks, Stephen. My pleasure.
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