Topics: MH17, CFMEU, US-Trump-Australia
04:05PM AEST
17 July 2024
Greg Jennett: Simon Birmingham, why don’t we start today with the MH17 anniversary commemoration, which has brought you back here to Canberra. You’ve said elsewhere today that the Coalition would support the use of every mechanism available, including sanctions and other measures that the Government might pursue for justice on behalf of victims. What’s left though in the way of sanctions that hasn’t already been done?
Simon Birmingham: Well Greg this is a very poignant day and a particularly important one for the families and loved ones of those victims of this tragic disaster. But it’s also important that we redouble our resolve and recommit to continuing to pursue justice. Now, tragically, the events of ten years ago, have only seen a terrible situation get even worse when we look at the way Russia conducts itself in the world. That the deaths of hundreds have turned into the deaths of 10s of 1000s from Putin’s actions. Now that requires a resolve not just from Australia or our partners in response to MH17 like the Netherlands, but from all democracies and all nations to really hold Russia to account, to not let them prevail in Ukraine, to ensure that the separate and very separate legal avenues are continued to be pursued such that one day we might see true justice and accountability served.
Greg Jennett: Understood and those legal avenues are still being explored. Russia does still maintain a small and diminished diplomatic presence here in Canberra. Would you support that being wound up progressively as diplomatic visas expire?
Simon Birmingham: The current Government, Anthony Albanese and Penny Wong, before the last election said that Russia’s Ambassador to Australia should be expelled as a result of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Now they obviously haven’t followed through on that. It’s for them to explain the reasons why they have not followed through. We should have the minimal contact necessary to be able to maintain absolutely critical engagement where possible and that’s really only got to be engagement about where and when there might be glimmers of getting breakthroughs in relation to these types of sensitive matters or when we have to deal with key or sensitive consular issues or cases. But there really shouldn’t be Australians in Russia; there shouldn’t be consular cases and there should be as little contact as possible as part of our process to hold Russia to account.
Greg Jennett: Alright does sound like an argument for keeping at least a skeleton diplomatic presence does it here in Canberra and for that matter by Australia in Moscow?
Simon Birmingham: There is a balance between expelling diplomats and maintaining essential lines of communication. Now how that balance is achieved is one for the Government to justify. As I said, there were lots of strong comments before the last election from Anthony Albanese and Penny Wong saying the Ambassador should be expelled. They haven’t done that. It’s for them to justify why not.
Greg Jennett: Alright we’ll take that up with them if we get the chance. Let’s move on to the CFMEU. There’s been movement on that today. The Government has announced that it will use the Fair Work Commission, as the regulator effectively, to put the CFMEU under administration. Now if that is frustrated in any way legally by the union, it will legislate for administration. Will the Coalition support that?
Simon Birmingham: Well, we’d always reserve the right to see such legislation, but we will support any and all strong action against the CFMEU. Our concern is that at present, this is the weakest possible action by the Albanese Government. Bob Hawke had the guts to deregister the BLF. Anthony Albanese is simply pursuing a process of putting an administration in place. He’s not taking the type of strong action and showing the type of strong leadership that Bob Hawke did back in his day against the type of thuggery and illegal activity that occurs in the construction sector. And of course, the reason why this matters is because all Australians are paying the bill for this. They’re paying the bill through more expensive roads, more expensive hospitals, more expensive construction, a less competitive economy and that means people are facing higher inflation, more housing pressures and all of those costs.
Greg Jennett: Just let me test that assertion though. You maintain that deregistration is the ultimate act that could be taken. Tony Burke says that’s not the case under current law, compared to the 1980s when the BLF was deregistered, the argument being that if you deregistered today, the CFMEU could continue to go about negotiating EBAs – wages and conditions. Who’s right here? Do you accept that the law has changed since the 1980s and that deregistration may not achieve the goal that you suggest it would?
Simon Birmingham: if Tony Burke’s contention is that there is some legal barrier to shutting down the illegally behaving arms of the construction union, then change the law so that he can shut that down. We will certainly give support to measures that are necessary to shut down and shut out the thugs in the CFMEU. Now we want to see a sector where builders’ rights, workers’ rights are of course protected, but also a sector where people can have confidence that they won’t face, if they are a builder, if they are actually seeking to pursue a major construction, a situation where the union simply comes in and says ‘do this or else’. Or else we will stop your construction, stop your project, make you incur huge additional costs and losses and tragically that is what the Australian economy and our housing sector is facing the weight of.
Greg Jennett: If there is a need for the Government to come forward with legislation for administration to be imposed, Tony Burke has suggested that he will keep this as simple – for absolute clarity he says – he won’t sort of clutter it up with other measures. But would you support in negotiation around such a bill someone with a criminal conviction being barred from a registered organisation as a delegate, he says that would clutter things up – he wants clarity around this, but would you seek to include that?
Simon Birmingham: Well Greg, we actually sought to include something like that in the most recent piece of industrial legislation to go through the Parliament – one that again Labor was dragged kicking and screaming to in allowing the textiles division of the CFMEU to leave. Earlier this year they voted against that and then finally they agreed to do it in the last sitting of Parliament. We put forward proposals that somebody who had 10 criminal offences or more should be barred from holding office. That’s a pretty generous threshold – and the Government still voted against that. Now that shows just how…
Greg Jennett: …so if this goes back in, if this comes around, and it may well soon, in August, you’ll negotiate that back in?
Simon Birmingham: …we will reserve the right to scrutinise the Government’s legislation and to uphold the type of high standards that we think are essential. And it’s for Anthony Albanese and Tony Burke to explain why on earth it is that they have for years defended the CFMEU and its behaviour, for years enabled it through state Labor governments, through blockage of Coalition legislation and of course their priority when they came to government was to shut down the building industry watchdog rather than to further empower it and now all Australians are paying the price of that weakness.
Greg Jennett: That’s going to be a further argument I know about the reestablishment of the ABBC. I think Peter Dutton has already flagged that. Finally, back onto international affairs Simon Birmingham. In US politics we’re watching the Republican National Convention and Donald Trump on the brink of accepting his nomination. Do you pick up any indications from him or his Vice-Presidential running mate, JD Vance, that Donald Trump second time around would be more predictable, more mainstream in his approach to foreign policy?
Simon Birmingham: I think from an Australian perspective it’s crucial that firstly, we have a United States government that is committed to the Alliance and I have full confidence that Donald Trump would continue that as he did in his first term and would be really strong in terms of his support for the Alliance if there is to be a second term. Secondly, what we need to see is that they are playing a strong leading role in the world, uniting democratic nations were possible to stand against autocracies and he very strong in that regard….
Greg Jennett: …including in Ukraine because you’d be well aware that JD Vance has said all sorts of things about ending that war as indeed has Donald Trump himself. Do you think they’d follow through on that?
Simon Birmingham: We all want to see an end to that war. How that is achieved matters. And it is crucial that all of us as democratic nations and leaders across these nations engage with whoever’s in power in the US to advocate for an approach that ensures Russia and Putin do not prevail; that we do continue to support Ukraine to prevent Russia and Putin from prevailing because how that conflict is resolved and how democratic nations stand against it, will be interpreted by other autocracies and will frame many of the years to come and be crucial for it. I welcome the fact that Ambassador Kevin Rudd is at the Republican National Convention, is meeting with officials there and it is crucial that he ensures Australia’s in the strongest position possible if there is to be another Trump administration.
Greg Jennett: Yes, and he does seem to have forged a little bit of a relationship, I think it’s called a text relationship with JD Vance which might stand Australia in good stead. Let’s see. No one’s picking winners at this stage. Simon Birmingham. Thanks so much.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks. My pleasure.
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