Topics: Thank you and farewell.
07:35AM AEDT
29 November 2024
Patricia Karvelas: Veteran Liberal Senator Simon Birmingham will retire from federal politics at the next election after serving 17 years in the Senate. The South Australian has previously been the Minister for Trade and Tourism as well as the Minister for Finance. He currently holds the Shadow Foreign Affairs portfolio and is the Opposition Leader in the Senate. So, in charge of all of the business in the Senate for the opposition and has chosen to leave politics with a federal election just around the corner. He joined me a short time ago. Simon Birmingham, welcome to the program.
Simon Birmingham: Good morning, PK. Good to be with you.
Patricia Karvelas: Why go now?
Simon Birmingham: It’s the right time for me, my family, my career. And so, it really is a case that in my instance, there’s a good opportunity for me to do something completely different out in the commercial world. And that’s, I think, the right thing at my age and stage. It was a very, very difficult decision, there’s no doubt about that. Walking away from serving in the Australian Parliament is not an easy thing to do. But ultimately, I came to the conclusion that I should seize the opportunity and make a contribution in different ways.
Patricia Karvelas: You said some things in your speech with I think, which I think are really worth exploring. You said, “those on the harder edges of the left and right who seek to divide our country only make us weaker. Little is gained by culture wars, politicians obsessing over what happens in private bedrooms, or anyone seeking to override evidence based medical practice”. Just talk to me about what you’re concerned about and what you’re warning about there.
Simon Birmingham: Well, I think and I was reflecting there very much on a global trend of, of increased tribalism and populism. And you can see it coming very much from parts of the far left, as well as parts of the far right in different ways, but still ways that ultimately divide our country. And for me, I want to see us as united as possible. And that’s always been the way I’ve tried to approach my politics, and I don’t like to see either small sectoral interest groups run their own campaigns and races for ever, special treatment or the like. Nor do I like to see indeed, small groups in society targeted, victimised or attacked in different ways. I think what we have to really hold dear are the old principles around equality of opportunity and making sure that we frame our policies in ways that do that, and the principles of mutual respect, which are important to show to people, whatever their differences. And I guess I highlighted the debate that you and I talked about long, in fact, you broke the story back in a different journalistic space of my views around same sex marriage. That the way that was ultimately concluded through the plebiscite, that itself was controversial. But the one good thing that plebiscite absolutely delivered was, I think, a real sign that Australians support that equality principle, that mutual respect principle.
Patricia Karvelas: That’s really interesting. And yes, you were the first Liberal MP to go on the record and say you were going to support same sex marriage, and I did write it back then when I worked for The Australian. That’s right. And it was a-.
Simon Birmingham: You pushed me pretty hard in the interview too, if I can, if I remember. But I’m grateful that you did.
Patricia Karvelas: No, I’m not pushy. I’m not. Stop it. [Laughs] But returning to these themes now, that issue appears more settled. Of course, everything is always contested, but it’s certainly more settled. One of the issues we’re seeing emerge, we know, is issues around trans rights in the US. There was that, of course, that advertisement. You know, that Kamala was for they/them. Are you worried about that sort of messaging being used by conservative politicians?
Simon Birmingham: That sort of targeting and divisiveness does worry me. There are many elements of us campaign style and politics that I wouldn’t want to see creep into the mainstream of Australian campaigning. And I think in this sort of space, we’ve really got to when it comes to medical treatments that are debated around gender dysphoria, back in medical science, back in evidence-based research. And that means that the issues themselves are not contestable, but they need to be contested by those who are undertaking the evidence and by those who understand the research and by those who we ultimately trust in all of the other aspects of our health care, which, of course, are our doctors, clinicians and those scientific experts. And so, I think it is important for politicians to know where their guardrails should be and which lanes in, frankly, we should stay in.
Patricia Karvelas: Your departure will diminish the power of the moderate grouping. More, of course, you lost some key MPs at the last election from the teal wave. But there were fewer of you now. Do you really have significantly less power and influence in the party room as a result?
Simon Birmingham: There is always an ebbing and flowing when it comes to the nature of the party room and politics and yes, I am proudly a small l liberal of the John Stuart Mill tradition, and I’ve never shied away from that. But there are great new colleagues who’ve joined me only in the last few years, people like Andrew Bragg and Maria Kovacic, who I think would broadly describe themselves in similar terms. There are also some great candidates around the country who I think also are custodians of that liberal tradition within the Liberal Party, and I certainly hope and expect to see them continue to carry that banner in their own way with their own values, of course, but it is an important thread of how our party is successful. Certainly John Howard, our most successful prime minister to sense our party’s founder, Robert Menzies. John Howard always used to speak about the need for the liberal wing and the conservative wing of our party to be strong, and that is critical, I think, for our enduring ability to connect with the Australian middle ground, which is ultimately where elections are won.
Patricia Karvelas: And are you worried that aspect of your party is not having the kind of muscle it should?
Simon Birmingham: I don’t worry so much in that, that I think at present with Peter Dutton, we have a leader who, as I said in my speech yesterday, we don’t agree on everything and we do have fundamental differences from time to time. But if I also look back over the last few months as to how Peter responded to those who wanted to weaponise or elevate the issue of abortion, or indeed, how he stared down those who weren’t happy to support and move in terms of the protection of children in the online world. That Peter showed great moral clarity. He showed strong leadership and he showed that. I think he understands where the women of Australia sit when it comes to their reproductive rights, and that he respects that and that he understands equally where many families of Australia sit when it comes to the protection of their children, and that he respects and understands that too.
Patricia Karvelas: What’s your biggest regret?
Simon Birmingham: Oh, [laughs] I think, you know, I had the great honour of working closely with a couple of prime ministers, in particular Malcolm Turnbull and Scott Morrison. I wish perhaps in the earlier days I’d argued more forcefully at different times. You know that-
Patricia Karvelas: Give me an example where you should have been a little more forceful.
Simon Birmingham: But I think that’s probably the case that, you know, certainly as, as you grow in your position and stature and ultimately leadership roles. You get the opportunity to have a louder, more vocal say. But, look, I think in those early days of Malcolm’s leadership, looking back, I wish we had found a way to resolve same sex marriage that we talked about sooner and faster than we ultimately did. We got there and Malcolm deserves credit for getting there and his perseverance of doing so. But it would have been much better going into that 2016 election if we’d found a way to resolve it sooner and faster.
Patricia Karvelas: Simon Birmingham, I just want to thank you for the many conversations we’ve had throughout the years. So many actually, just an astonishing amount, number there. And for your willingness always to engage with me and the ABC. Thank you so much.
Simon Birmingham: Thank you, PK. It’s been a blast.
[ENDS]