Topics: Australian Oscar Jenkins held prisoner by Russia; Extradition of Australian Daniel Duggan to US;
07:40AM AEDT
24 December 2024
Sally Sara: The government says it’s providing support to the family of the man, who identifies himself as 32-year-old Melbourne teacher Oscar Jenkins. But as the government scrambles to confirm his whereabouts and well-being, what other diplomatic levers can the government use? Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Birmingham joined me a little earlier. Senator Birmingham, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
Simon Birmingham: Good morning. Sally, it’s good to be with you.
Sally Sara: What was your reaction to see the footage of this Australian being held by Russian forces?
Simon Birmingham: Well, the footage is clearly disturbing and obviously all Australians would want to see and have confidence that this Australian citizen is going to be treated humanely, fairly, in accordance with the type of rules that should apply to prisoners of war. And our desire is ultimately to see him released and returned to Australia, if that is his choice in terms of where he comes to. There are some questions for the Albanese Government. I see reports from the ABC that his status as being missing has been evident for potentially as far back as August. And if that’s the case, then what steps has Australia taken to try to ascertain his whereabouts and seek to ensure his wellbeing? But welcome steps were taken yesterday, at least in relation to calling in the Russian ambassador and making clear Australia’s interest in this case.
Sally Sara: What does Russia need to do in your view?
Simon Birmingham: Well, Russia should be treating this prisoner and indeed all prisoners, humanely and fairly, with respect and in accordance with the laws of war. And it is for Russia to live up to those standards. Tragically, we’ve seen far too many reports during this war that has gone on for far too long of Russia not living up to those standards. And it’s understandable as to why people would have concerns for the welfare of this Australian, as all too many people do for the welfare of all those who Russia has captured throughout this war.
Sally Sara: Would a prisoner swap be acceptable to resolve this issue?
Simon Birmingham: Well, that is one potential pathway. Now people I’ve noted reporting in relation to an individual who has been claiming asylum in the Russian consulate in Sydney. I think it’s important from an Australian perspective to stress that individual is not a prisoner. He is not held by any Australian governments or authorities. He is the subject of outstanding charges in our legal system, but he is not a prisoner as such. However, if he potentially proves himself to be, shall I say, a useful idiot in terms of a possibility for a prisoner swap – well, that is something for the government to consider as it looks at ways to to potentially bring an Australian free and free him from Russian custody.
Sally Sara: What’s your message to Australians who are considering joining foreign forces?
Simon Birmingham: Well, the standard Australian message is don’t. And the travel advisory for Ukraine is a do not travel and remain so. And it’s important that is stressed. And circumstances like this reinforce the dangers of travel for Australians into war zones, reinforce the dangers of volunteering and operating with armies or in mercenary situations, in conflict zones, and the limitations of the Australian government to be able to help people in such circumstances. We wish to see the Albanese Government do all it possibly can, and if it’s been aware of this individual status as being missing at any time prior to the publication of this video, then it’s important to understand what steps the government took at those earlier stages of awareness. But we do appreciate there are real limitations. And ultimately the Australian government cannot just demand his release or rescue him, and nor could it do so for anybody else in similar circumstances.
Sally Sara: In another development, Australian pilot Daniel Duggan is being extradited to the US over claims that he trained Chinese pilots in exchange for tens of thousands of dollars. Mr. Duggan’s family says it feels absolutely abandoned and denies the allegation. What’s your reaction to the extradition?
Simon Birmingham: This case has a long history now. It goes back to 2017, when Mr. Duggan was first indicted in the United States for the alleged training of Chinese pilots. And since then, it’s gone through proper Australian legal proceedings and with an Australian court making its determination in May of this year and that Mr. Duggan was indeed eligible for extradition, and that the Attorney-General then having to make that final decision, which he did. I understand on the 19th of December, following the consideration, he advises of all relevant materials put before him. So Australian law has, it would appear, been followed under all of the proper processes. Now, Mr. Duggan’s case is one now subject to US legal processes, and the reason we have an extradition arrangement with the United States as a country is because we both share a strong commitment to the rule of law, to ensuring that trials and criminal proceedings are fair trials. And of course, Australia has additional safeguards in our Extradition Act to prevent individuals from being extradited where they could face the potential of the death penalty or may be subject to torture. And all of those matters will have, I’m confident, been assessed by, firstly, the court and then the Attorney-General in coming to this decision.
Sally Sara: At a time of heightened tensions between the US and China. Is Daniel Duggan being used as a scapegoat in your view?
Simon Birmingham: Well, Mr. Duggan, and obviously in terms of the details of his case, which will be subject to US legal proceedings if he is ultimately extradited, as now appears likely. Once, for their court system to fairly and independently assess that is what would occur in Australia were somebody to be subject of such instances. And at the broad level, we did see greater heightening of concerns about the potential transfer of military knowledge and knowhow, through former pilots or through other skilled military personnel potentially training the Chinese military. And that’s why our laws in Australia have been tightened, and why it’s understandable that close partners like the United States would take such matters very seriously.
Sally Sara: Senator Simon Birmingham, thank you very much.
Simon Birmingham: Thank you, Sally. And all the best for Christmas. Happy Hanukkah and a splendid summer to everybody out there.
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