Subject: (IPSOS Fairfax Poll; Newspoll; 2015 Budget)
E&OE…
KIERAN GILBERT: With me now the Assistant Education Minister, Simon Birmingham…and in addition to the Newspoll, the Nielson Poll has even better news for the government at 50/50 with the Labor Party, that’s a good thing to wake up to.
SIMON BIRMINGHAM: Well Kieran look, as I walked around and visited various parts of my electorate in South Australia and around Adelaide over the weekend, I got a clear message from many people that they understand the core elements of this budget and they appreciate and welcome the focus on small business people and tradies and people who are working to have a go in terms of developing jobs and wealth and prosperity for all Australians. They understand and appreciate the focus on families and particularly supporting families to engage with the workforce and to make it easier for, especially, working mums to access childcare and get back to work. So, the overall elements of this budget are well appreciated but people still see it as a budget that is working our way back to a more fiscally sustainable position…
KIERAN GILBERT: …Is it appreciated even in South Australia? Because their analysis of the numbers this morning suggest South Australia is one of the weak spots for the government and a sense that they were completely overlooked in terms of this budget.
SIMON BIRMINGHAM: I was very heartened by the reaction and look; I think it is a case that people do recognise there’s a bigger picture at play here and that what we are trying to do is build a stronger national economy which helps South Australia as well. A stronger economy across Australia means a stronger economy within South Australia and I think that is a good story to tell and it stands in contrast to Bill Shorten who on Thursday night promised tax cuts to small business more than three times what we said we’re delivering, but with no effective timeline, no effective details of how he would pay for it, no offsetting initiatives, it’s all quite unbelievable and I think people are starting to recognise the un-believability of Bill Shorten and the Labor Party.
KIERAN GILBERT: You and the Minister, Minister Pyne, have raised questions about the funding of the free university degrees for science, technology, engineering and maths students as put forward by Mr Shorten, some 100,000 students. Do you think that that’s a good idea? And if not, why not?
SIMON BIRMINGHAM: This is a policy littered with holes, Kieran, and we had three different costings put out by the Labor Party in the space of 24 hours for this policy, none of them coming within cooee of the $2.2 billion cost that comes with this policy. It is a significant cost, no idea from the Labor Party of how they will pay for it, no idea of how people will be targeted in to this policy. They’ve said that 100,000 STEM (science, technology, engineering or maths) graduates will have their HECS fees waved, but there are already 184,000 people studying those subjects around Australia. How will the 100,000 be chosen? How will it actually increase the number of people studying these subjects when you already have more than that number studying these subjects to start with? A lot of question marks, a lot of holes and the government is already working very hard to improve STEM in schools which will drive greater…
KIERAN GILBERT: …let me put to you though, Labor’s position on this because they’re saying it’s fully costed, it doesn’t start til 2017 and it’s students entering at that point, therefore, 2017 start, 3 years before the first debts are waved, therefore their costing is well within the range because it doesn’t actually kick in til 2020.
SIMON BIRMINGHAM: Well Kieran, firstly what you’re seeing, of course, at a macro level is the Labor Party being very tricky about any of their policies here trying to ensure they can be off budget or pushed beyond the forward estimates to avoid having to detail how they cost these policies- but it doesn’t matter if it starts in 2017 or if it starts next year, they all still have to be paid for, all of these policies have to be paid for and the history of the Labor Party is that they have been completely and woefully inadequate at paying for their promises and their policies in their past.
KIERAN GILBERT: but they’re saying that the cost is $1.4 billion over the 10 years and starting in 2020 when the first debts are waved, they’re actually…it seems like they’re on the money in terms of what you’re saying.
SIMON BIRMINGHAM: Not at all, Kieran. The Department of Education and Training costs this at more than $2 billion…
KIERAN GILBERT: …if it starts today…
SIMON BIRMINGHAM: More than $2 billion. Well, Kieran the price of degrees is, if anything, only going to go up between now and then in terms of the cost of universities and the costs they face. So, it won’t be cheaper in the future to be able to deliver this policy, it will only become more expensive but, in reality, if you’re comparing apples for apples of offsetting the current cost of a HECS degree in relation to science in relation to this, it will cost you more than $2 billion to wipe out 100,000 science HECS graduates in terms of their debts…
KIERAN GILBERT: …Do you think it’s a good idea to be encouraging students at university through this sort of approach? Because clearly, as a nation, we could do with some more science and maths students.
SIMON BIRMINGHAM: We think it’s a great idea to encourage more people in terms of studying and pursuing STEM degrees and STEM vocations and lifting that understanding of science and technology which is why we’ve focussed on it through the National Curriculum, why it is part of our teacher training reforms, why we’re providing incentives to make sure you get a lift through the school system in relation to the studying of science and mathematics and technology…
KIERAN GILBERT: …but you forget about the university…
SIMON BIRMINGHAM: …No not at all, Kieran, but improving that pathway right through school you will get more people studying these subjects at university because they’re coming out of the school system with greater knowledge of them, with greater enthusiasm…
KIERAN GILBERT: …but they’d be encouraged even more so if you wave their HECS fee, it sounds like a good investment even if it is expensive.
SIMON BIRMINGHAM: Kieran, you’ve got to make sure that your university system is sustainable and you’ve got to make sure your budget is sustainable. Now, the HECS system is an inherently fair model where students only repay their debts when they earn sufficient money to do so. There’s been absolutely no sign that having a HECS debt is a disincentive for anyone to study, enrolments since HECS came in in the 1980s have just kept going up and up. So I don’t think HECS acts as a disincentive, I doubt you would see an increase and Labor haven’t even been able to outline how they would guarantee an increase seeing as we already have 184,000 people studying these subjects. They’re only promising to subsidise 100,000 people.
KIERAN GILBERT: Minister, thanks so much for your time.
SIMON BIRMINGHAM: A pleasure, Kieran.