Topics: Israel – Hezbollah conflict; Chinese nuclear submarine sinks; Treasurer’s message to China;
09:50AM AEST
27 September 2024
Laura Jayes: Joining me now is the Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister, Simon Birmingham. Simon, thanks so much for your time.
Simon Birmingham: Morning, LJ.
Laura Jayes: Benjamin Netanyahu rejecting a US brokered or attempted US brokered ceasefire overnight, saying it is full victory. But does full victory mean all-out war?
Simon Birmingham: LJ, nobody wishes to see all-out war. The world is in this situation because Hezbollah, since October 8th last year, has continuously fired rockets into Israel and displaced thousands and thousands of people from their homes, both in northern Israel and as a consequence, also in southern Lebanon, and has done so in breach of UN Security Council agreements that were meant to see essentially a demilitarised zone in southern Lebanon.
Now, we would urge the Israeli government to engage with their closest partners, especially the US government, to find a means that can ensure those Israeli residents and Lebanese residents can return to their homes in an environment of safety, security and peace without a conflict. That clearly has to see Israel have confidence that Hezbollah will be removed from proximity to Israel and removed as a threat in the way in which it operates against Israel.
Laura Jayes: You’re urging Israel to engage with partners like the US. The US being the most critical partner here. But it seems or does it seem to you that Benjamin Netanyahu is less and less influenced like partners like the US and us?
Simon Birmingham: Well, I heard the Israeli Ambassador to the United Nations this morning being clear that they don’t wish to see an all-out war or all out conflict. And if their desire is to avert that, then that requires engagement to try to find diplomatic solutions. Of course, Israel’s actions in recent times against Hezbollah have been targeted. Even in the last 24 hours, news about one of the Hezbollah commanders driving the drone strikes against Israel being targeted and shows the way in which they are focused in their operations, as distinct from the indiscriminate firing of rockets and missiles that Israel faces from Hezbollah. But all of that said, to avoid broader, greater conflict, will require diplomacy, will require talks. And in hearing Israel’s ambassador say that, that has got to engage US and other partners to find a pathway to give that security in the north of Israel.
Laura Jayes: But has America’s influence over Netanyahu has been diminished in recent times, I mean, the headlines are that Netanyahu shatters ties with the US over this latest ceasefire. Is that a beat up or about, right?
Simon Birmingham: I’m not sure any of us can fully appreciate what life is like for Israelis and how it changed on October 7th last year, when they saw those borders breached by Hamas terrorists, and the way in which they so brutally murdered and executed Israeli civilians and then Hezbollah coming in, essentially backing in Hamas through their rocket and other attacks. And so, the sentiment in Israel to give themselves security and to remove those terrorist threats does remain a very strong one. All of us need to understand or try to understand that when then talking and engaging with Israel about how to find peaceful settlements and solutions that give them the security and confidence to be able to live in their own homes and live their lives, which is such a perfectly reasonable thing for them to wish to be able to do, but also something that ultimately we wish to see people in Lebanon and Palestinian peoples be able to do without their lives also being threatened because of the terrorists in their midst.
Laura Jayes: If I could change tack for a moment, we’ve seen in the last hour this breaking news out of China, it seems that China has tried to cover up a nuclear submarine that sank, and it was a pier side accident. I mean, we’re only starting to get this information. Obviously, China would be embarrassed about this, but what does it tell us? Do you think about its capability?
Simon Birmingham: This should be taken as a reminder of the ambitions that China has and is pursuing in one of the largest military build-ups that we have seen in modern times. And of course, because of the lack of transparency to the rest of the world, in the Chinese system, we don’t always know or understand the scale of that build up that’s happening, but it is, by all reports, very significant in terms of the ambitions, not just of size and of fleet numbers, but of advancing technological capabilities. This obviously will be a significant setback. It’s a demonstration of the complexity and the challenges in these types of technological undertakings. But we should also firmly see it as a reminder that we are living in these times, unfortunately, of huge military build-up within our own region that necessitates the type of partnerships we’ve established with AUKUS to build out the deterrence framework to ensure that military build-up does not lead to conflict.
Laura Jayes: Jim Chalmers is in China right now. I think he’s the first treasurer to do so. Make a formal visit in around seven years. We are going to hear from him in the next couple of moments, actually. What kind of message would you expect him to be taking to the Chinese leadership while he’s there, and should he, I’m sure he’s going to be questioned about this, this naval incident. Should that be raised?
Simon Birmingham: Well, I think transparency in terms of compliance with safety and other regional factors are always important to reinforce. Jim Chalmers should, of course, be raising Australia’s bilateral considerations trade and economic, as you would expect a treasurer to do. But we would expect all senior members of the government to also raise consular concerns and the continued concern for the welfare and need to see humane and compassionate treatment shown to Doctor Yang Hengjun, as well as the importance for the economy, and that the treasurer can deliver this message of regional and global stability and the role China can play by easing regional tensions. By not undertaking such aggressive military postures in the South China Sea towards the Philippines, by engaging in such aggressive conduct around Taiwan and globally the role China could play if, instead of enabling Russia financially or Iran in other ways to be such global disruptors, they actually worked to ensure that those conflicts and that disruption came to an end. That would be something that China could do that would strengthen the world economy and help China through their current economic challenges.
Laura Jayes: Always good to talk to you, Simon. We’ll see you soon.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks, LJ.
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