Topics: Coalition nuclear energy plan; Australian embassy in Ukraine; Donald Trump;
09:25AM AEDT
13 December 2024
Holly Stearnes: Well, the big story today the Coalition is set to deliver its nuclear costings next hour. Joining me now is Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Birmingham. Good morning to you, [Senator]. Well, it’s been a long time coming to say the least. Why did the coalition choose today?
Simon Birmingham: Well, this is about the lead up to the next election. And, you know, I’ve been in politics a long time, and I’ve heard lots of people at different times say, oh, you know, they’re all the same. And, you know, coming up to an election, what’s the point? Whilst I’ve never really agreed with that, what is clear is that at the next election, Australians are going to have a very clear choice in terms of policy differences, genuine policy differences. And Peter Dutton is showing real courage, real foresight for the nation and delivering a level of detail that will allow for scrutiny that has rarely been seen from an opposition before. And what people will see there is detailed modelling, clear policy, all of which is designed to give Australia energy security in the future, energy affordability in the future and track the pathway to achieving net zero.
Holly Stearnes: There are a lot of questions here to answer though, and for everyday people looking at this, it can be quite confusing. The CSIRO report claims the nuclear will cost twice as much as renewables, but the coalition’s modelling is essentially going to put the cost of nuclear at about $250 billion cheaper than renewables. It’s quite conflicting, it’s quite confusing. How does anyone know what’s really accurate? How can these numbers and figures be trusted?
Simon Birmingham: Well, that’s why we will be putting modelling out there so that people can truly scrutinise that they’ll be able to see the assumptions there. Indeed, the way in which this modelling, looking at whole of system type costs, not just generation aspects, but the whole of system impacts and the important relevance of that is that they are what ultimately impacts on what people get in their power bill at the end of the day. And so, if on a whole of system basis, this is able to deliver power for Australians at significantly less cost, well that ultimately means lower power bills for Australians. That’s what Peter Dutton and the Coalition want to see. Australians with lower power bills and Australian businesses with the certainty of generation and supply, as well as affordability, so that they can invest and keep an industrial base in our country as well.
Holly Stearnes: [Senator], talk me through that though. I mean, it’s so far in the future it’s not going to be in budget. It never is. The PM has said this morning it will make bills more expensive. You’re saying it won’t? How will bills be cheaper for Australians?
Simon Birmingham: Well, as I said, Holly, and that’s why Peter Dutton and Ted O’Brien will shortly release the detail around the modelling. Independent modelling. Modelling undertaken by an agency that the Labor Party themselves have been happy to use in the past. So people shouldn’t buy into any Labor scare campaigns about who’s done this modelling or the credibility of those that have done this modelling. It’s been done by those of great expertise and experience and who have been used by Labor Party figures. Indeed, the current South Australian state Labor government, here in my home state, were happy to use frontier economics for their modelling around their energy policies and the run up to the last election. So, the transparency is there, the detail is there, and ultimately what it puts together for Australians is a picture that honestly says there’s no overnight silver bullet. There are no magic solutions. But absolutely, if you chart a long-term credible pathway, you can increase reliability, you can achieve affordability, and you can have net zero achieved as well.
Holly Stearnes: I know you’re obviously trying to keep some detail a mystery here because we are expecting Peter Dutton over the next hour. But talk me through the mix here. Renewables 53%, nuclear 38%. I noticed gas as well is quite small. Talk me through that mix if you can.
Simon Birmingham: Well, Holly indeed, Peter and Ted will provide those details soon. But what you can see there is this is not an anti-renewables policy. The share of renewables in the Australian energy system continues to grow, but are complemented by nuclear energy and complemented by that to ensure that you have that reliability that comes from nuclear energy and that in the mix that you get, you achieve something that doesn’t require the scale of extreme new investment in transmission infrastructure, which is coming with deep environmental concerns around other parts of the country where people are worried about the new poles and wires crisscrossing the country. They are worried about the overbuild of renewables that are necessary to achieve reliability, that because you need in places where you can’t always rely on wind or solar to then extend that network even further under a renewables only pathway. This is looking at that instead with nuclear. You can achieve a better balance in your system generation and within that better balance you also you also have fewer transmission costs as well as less need to build out such extensive overbuild in those renewable capabilities.
Holly Stearnes: Well, as I said, there are still a lot of questions to be answered, and a big question that comes to mind is how these will be physically built in that time frame as well. So, hopefully we can get some of that detail nutted out next hour when Opposition Leader Peter Dutton does stand up. I want to get some thoughts of yours on another topic today though. Australia is taking steps towards reopening its embassy in Kyiv in Ukraine. Australia has been criticised for its delay on this. I know you’ve been speaking about this. Has this made Australia an outlier on the global stage?
Simon Birmingham: Australia is completely an outlier when it comes to having an embassy open and operational in Kyiv. I visited Kyiv personally a few months ago, declared that if elected, a Dutton government would reopen Australia’s embassy there. We share an embassy with Canada and Canada reopened a couple of years ago. Now we’ve got Penny Wong and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, saying they’re starting the process to put in place the IT and security mechanisms to do what Canada finished two years ago. You’ve got countries from Ireland to Indonesia who have managed to successfully reopen their presence in Ukraine, and yet Australia sits as this outlier. Frankly, it’s insulting to the people of Ukraine, but it has a real impact as well in that Australia’s hard working officials, who do their best but are restricted from being on site, aren’t then able to be at all of the face to face briefings, aren’t able to give some of the real time intelligence and feedback back into our support for Ukraine. And they’re the practical things that we’ve been missing out on. And so rather than this long, drawn out process where it seems as if the Albanese Government is just hoping the war will be over before it has to make a decision, we should instead see them work with Canada to quickly have our ambassador back in place in the same embassy building where Canada’s ambassador has been working safely for the last two years.
Holly Stearnes: And of course, the government and Penny Wong has defended its decision here. But we do have to wrap things up. There was a lot to cover this morning, but I do want to get your thoughts on something important today. Trump is Time’s Person of the Year. I mean, he is the biggest newsmaker. What did you make of that today?
Simon Birmingham: Well, time make their decision not based on whether somebody is good, bad or otherwise, but based on impact. And nobody, nobody, I think, can deny the impact of Donald Trump. And the task for all. Now that he is the Person of the Year, is to make sure that in the next four years, he’s also the person that we work with effectively to hopefully achieve good economic and security outcomes.
Holly Stearnes: Simon Birmingham, thank you so much for your time this morning.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks, Holly.
[ENDS]