Topics: Kieth Pitt resignation; foreign affairs; Australian relationships; Federal election;
09:25AM AEDT
20 December 2024
Laura Jayes: Let’s go straight to the Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister, Simon Birmingham. He’s in Adelaide for us for our last show of the year. Simon, thank you. And I know you’d want to wish all your constituents Merry Christmas and we can do that at the end. But first, it has been quite an extraordinary year when it comes to foreign politics. I want to talk a lot about that. But as we move into an election year, we’ve also seen another resignation that is in Keith Pitt. Is that a surprise to you?
Simon Birmingham: Look a little, I guess, Laura, I wasn’t expecting or knowing that Keith Pitt was going to, decide to go off and do other things. But equally, Keith, like me, was a minister and has been in the parliament for a while, so it wouldn’t be a complete surprise either.
Laura Jayes: He has also said that the Nationals should, you know, stop bending to the Liberals. This is always a current and constant tension within the Coalition. Do you think more than other periods over the last ten years, or do you think relations between the two parties are probably the best they’ve been for a little while?
Simon Birmingham: Look, I think relations are pretty good. We are different parties. There is always a bit of a tension point there, and that actually ultimately leads to good outcomes, just as the Liberal Party in its John Howard esq or even Menzien model needing to be the custodian of conservative traditions and liberal traditions. It creates tension points. But when we work through those tension points within the Liberal Party and within the Coalition, you actually then get to outcomes that better reflect where Australia overall is and enable us to be a focused, centrist, sensible government for all of Australia and the metropolitan areas and the regional areas. So, I think it’s important that we never let the tail wag the dog, that the Liberal Party stands up for itself and is clear in terms of its values and opinions, but I absolutely acknowledge the important role and place that the National Party have. And we’ve seen at different points some great coalitionists who recognise, most importantly, that those tension points I spoke about are things we should iron out and work out behind closed doors as much as possible, and then take a united front forward as the two Coalition parties to the people.
Laura Jayes: As a journalist, I could never advocate for such a thing. You should do it all in public. But look, it’s really interesting going to an election year. And as the Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister I wanted your opinion on, I mean, such an extraordinary year when it comes to foreign policy, the rise of China, the tension with the United States. What’s happening in the Middle East, Russia-Ukraine and where Australia fits into to all of that? How should we identify ourselves? Are we that still that strong middle power? Have we retreated to parochial politics sometimes take over, particularly in an election year?
Simon Birmingham: I think Australia should always have confidence about our place in the world, we’re the 13th largest economy in the world, with about the 53rd largest population. So, we pack well above our weight. And that economic strength is, of course, what gives us one of the most enviable lifestyles in the world and the ability to deliver essential government services. So, we should never lose sight of the fact that economic strength is core and central to everything, including our ability to fund and deliver the national security that we need to keep our country safe and secure. And right now, we do tragically live in a world where all of those things are challenged in one form or another. The national security challenge evident from the axis of Iran, North Korea, Russia and the fact that certain policies of the Chinese government all too often enable those disruptors to create great mayhem and seek to overturn parts of the established order. The economic challenge is real, not just the cost-of-living pressures we’ve had, but the risk of all out-trade wars that, for an open trading economy like ours, are a real threat for the future. And so all of those things put together require us to navigate a really complex world and mean that our traditional security partnerships with democratic allies are critical. But our trading relationships with our Asian regional partners and friends are also truly critical. And that requires a deft hand and a real focus in terms of our foreign policy and associated aspects of trade and defence.
Laura Jayes: Yeah, Australia’s been a great beneficiary of globalisation, but the world has felt a lot smaller as well. So overseas events can impact us here in Australia. And it’s also seen, you know, the rise of Trump and this view of protectionism and populism that is not relevant here in Australia is it?
Simon Birmingham: All of those global trends have definitely have impacts. And it does concern me that we see a tribalism that is created by different parts of politics, often at the far right and the far left, all of them seeking to create points of division and break us up in different ways. A populism that undermines what I believe to be proven good economics and good economic orthodoxy, such as open liberal trading markets. That in our region of the world, you think about where Australia was and where Southeast Asia was decades ago and Australia was a more insulated, less competitive country and economy that didn’t stand as tall in terms of standard of living indexes. And across South East Asia and China, we had huge incidents of poverty, but opening up trade across our region, opening up the flow of investment has transformed this part of the world. And it is the living proof that indeed, those sorts of policies can and do work and the world reverts against them at its peril. If we all end up in smaller groups and silos that don’t have those opportunities to best leverage each other’s competitiveness and natural advantages.
Laura Jayes: The Israel-Gaza war has really tested bipartisanship in Australia, but also tested our relationship with one of our closest partners, that being the United States and also Israel to an extent. Much has been made about UN votes diverging from how the US is thinking on particular issues. What is your view on that? Of course, on an issue such as important as foreign policy as that issue is, you’d want to see bipartisanship here because it does have an effect on, you know, the multicultural fabric here in Australia. But should Australia start having the confidence or should we have the do we have the confidence to, you know, disagree when we think we should from the United States and countries like Israel?
Simon Birmingham: Well, in short, the answer to that question is, is obviously, yes, we should have the confidence and the capability to disagree with anybody in the world where it is appropriate to do so, where our national interest, our values, our relationships mean that we should do so. But our criticism through, frankly, the course of this term of government, even pre-dating the tragic war in Gaza, pre-dating the horrific terrorist attacks of October 7th, our criticism has been that the Albanese Government went to the last election saying no change in position in relation to Israel, but then did already at the UN prior to October 7th last year, start changing voting positions, start changing language in relation to how Australia considered the Palestinian territories and the approaches that are embedded in government policy. And that’s only escalated in the time since. It’s not to say that there isn’t scope for criticism of Israeli government policies, but the way the government failed to strongly take a stance in terms of differentiating the space of Israeli government activities versus the horrific rise in anti-Semitism, has sadly put us in a terrible position domestically. And internationally the government’s approach has all too often been inconsistent with what it said prior to the election, and been inconsistent with how we believe the Australian government should approach that relationship with a democratic friend and partner and ensure that their long -term security is respected, and the need and how to achieve that is best secured by helping to eliminate a terrorist threat and putting maximum pressure for a ceasefire that sees hostages released, security guarantees achieved so that you actually have enduring peace and security as a possibility, not just a short-term stopgap.
Laura Jayes: This is going to be a bit of a different Christmas for you. Not that you’re, you know, downing tools already. You’ll be working very hard to the very end, but you are moving into retirement, at least from politics. Do you have a new perspective on anything going into an election year?
Simon Birmingham: I’m pleased that the next election, though I won’t be a combatant in it, is one that’s actually going to be clearly fought on policy differences. So, the fact that Peter Dutton’s got the courage to take forward bold policies in the nuclear energy space, and there will be other policy differences that are framed for Australians to choose, I hope, means that that’s where the contest can be. And I hope that people look at that in terms of the different policy positions of the Liberal National Coalition and the Labor Party and really form their views there. Don’t go for protest votes. Don’t create circumstances where independents, Greens or others have a chance of rising up through the system because that will just lead to more dysfunction in our government and greater difficulty for a Labour or a Liberal led government to be able to actually implement the reforms that our country needs and take us in the direction that we can. But I, for all the global challenges we face, ours is a country with really strong fundamentals, and if we can make sure that our policy direction keeps things going in a way that maintains the type of standard of life we have, then Australia has a really, really positive future ahead and Australians should look to the future this Christmas and the New Year with optimism, even though I know many are doing it pretty tough at present after these few years of hard cost of living pressures on so many households.
Laura Jayes: Simon Birmingham, great to talk to you. Have a wonderful Christmas with your family and we’ll see you soon.
Simon Birmingham: Thank you, LJ, you too. And to all the viewers, cheers. Thanks for all the chats.
[ENDS]