Topics: Visa checks;
03:45PM AEST
14 August 2024
Tom Connell: Welcome back to the program. Well, the Opposition Leader, Peter Dutton, says nobody from Gaza should be coming to Australia on the visa program. The Australian government has been allowing to happen. Joining me now is the Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Birmingham here in the studio. Thanks for your time. So, this policy, is it a Coalition policy and if so, when was it formalised?
Simon Birmingham: Well, Tom, it’s good to be with you. Look, this is entirely consistent with what we’ve said for some time, and that is that nobody should be coming here without full and thorough screening. Particularly screening in relation to security issues when they’re coming from a terrorist-controlled territory. Now, it’s evident from all of the advice and information to date that that full, comprehensive, thorough screening is not possible to be done out of Gaza at this point in time. The flow on from that is that we shouldn’t be processing people, and they shouldn’t be coming at this point in time until that sort of thorough checking can be undertaken.
Tom Connell: It’s not a blanket ban. It’s that because you don’t have confidence the checking can be done. Therefore, it shouldn’t happen at the moment. Is that the policy or the approach?
Simon Birmingham: Well, it’s not a never, ever, ever statement, but it is a statement of reality at the present point in time that under the Albanese Government, people have been processed on an average of 24 hours to get a visa, some of them as short as one hour to get their visa. That is clearly not entailing the full range of security checks that can and should be undertaken in terms of identity checks, using the biometric approach that is available nowadays, in terms of the type of interview processes that customarily would be done. All of those being skipped presents a heightened level of risk. That’s the reality.
Andrew Clennell: No one’s making it in. No one’s made it in since November anyway, right? Do you concede that, like, essentially you can argue the toss about the 1300 that are here, but no one’s getting through.
Simon Birmingham: Borders are closed at this point in time, Andrew. Yeah, that’s a statement of fact. Peter was responding to a question on Sky news about this. So, he was addressing the questions that he was being asked and being very clear about that, consistent with the approach we’ve taken about ensuring we protect Australia first and foremost.
Andrew Clennell: He said no one should be taken from that war zone full stop. So, do you agree with that statement or it’s just a matter of the quality of checks?
Simon Birmingham: Well, he said that at the end of outlining many of the points that I have just made, including about biometric testing, including about security screening, and that because those things can’t happen, no one should be taken.
Olivia Caisley: The cost of living is the one issue eclipsing everything. So, why the focus on Palestinian visas this week? Are you getting more complaints about this problem than, say, people paying their energy bills?
Simon Birmingham: Well, in some ways I could pose the question back to the fourth estate. It’s of course, the media were interviewing Mike Burgess on the ABC on Sunday, and Peter was responding to questions this morning. I’m sure he would have just as happily responded to questions in relation to cost of living. Now, this came up as a significant issue in the way it’s been reported today. So, obviously we’ve prosecuted that during Question Time today to make sure that we are clear in the position, as we always have been, and to expose some of those flaws in the government’s handling in terms of those short processing times, in terms of the absence of those interviews, in terms of the absence of those biometric tests, all of that being important for us to underscore. But it doesn’t change the reality that Australians can and should expect us to say a lot about cost of living between now and the next election, because we do know, how tough people are doing.
Kieran Gilbert: Is this an end to non-discriminatory immigration and-
Simon Birmingham: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Kieran. It’s a reality about the fact that governments have-
Kieran Gilbert: Refugees from Ukraine, from Afghanistan. Tough circumstances.
Simon Birmingham: So, in tough circumstances like Afghanistan, like Syria, we absolutely took refugees. We even created additional places. We also put in place systems for third country processing of those individuals so that they were airlifted, indeed, out of the trouble zone. But before they got visas, before they got to Australia, they had full and thorough screening undertaken. It was not a one hour rushed process. It was a full and thorough security screening in those circumstance. That’s what’s different.
Kieran Gilbert: You reject then that this is a shift in that?
Simon Birmingham: 100% reject that notion. There is absolutely no intention that it would in any way change that fundamental of Australian policy. This is about dealing with the security threats and realities of the time.
Andrew Clennell: There were some interesting kind of fishing questions in Question Time around whether Tony Burke had been lobbied by people for a visitor visa or that sort of thing. Do you believe there was anything of that nature from the Palestinian community, prior to the government deciding to hand out all these visitor visas?
Simon Birmingham: Look, that would be, and I obviously was in Senate Question Time, so I haven’t seen all of the detail of the questions that came up in the House. It would be, perhaps in some ways unsurprising if there wasn’t lobbying, particularly in some constituencies or electorates like Tony Burke’s, but understanding if there was, how they’re handled and they’re fair questions to ask to make sure that ministers where they might have potential conflicts in their electorates, have the proper processes in place for how they deal with those potential conflicts.
Andrew Clennell: Because in some ways it seems quite a peculiar thing to do. Doesn’t it? Give people visitor visas from a war zone?
Simon Birmingham: Well, it’s part of the rushed process that was applied. As distinct from those types of examples we were just discussing in relation to Syria and Afghanistan, where procedures were put in place to be able to get people out of the war zone, out of the trouble zone, into a place where they could be thoroughly, properly screened, where government officials and security officials and agencies could take their time and do the job properly before a visa that provides perhaps a more certain pathway in terms of how long they can stay in Australia is provided.
Tom Connell: On that, on the 1300 that are here now. Andrew reported before they’ll be on temporary protection visas. That would be the Coalition policy post-election. Would it be a fair enough approach if someone was being sent back to an area which was completely destroyed? So the war was over, the danger was over, but there is nothing to return to. Would it be fair enough to return them to Gaza in that circumstance?
Simon Birmingham: Tom, as in so many cases of immigration, there will often be individual, extreme circumstances that have to be considered which immigration ministers of all persuasions have had to do for a long, long time and will have to do into the future. And so, of course, even in that scenario, there will be different degrees of what housing is available, what actually is still available, and the circumstances or situation that an individual may face.
Olivia Caisley: So, are you advocating for a pause of visas for Palestinians trying to flee Gaza rather than a total ban? What’s your position?
Simon Birmingham: Well, the Coalition’s position is one that when you can’t have the full, thorough, proper security screening in place, then you shouldn’t be undertaking the transfer of individuals or providing the visas. That’s the Coalition position. It’s not what I’m advocating for. It’s our position.
Andrew Clennell: You can never guarantee that you’re not going to get a bad apple. Even with all those checks and what it seemed from what Peter Dutton said today is he just doesn’t think he should take them from that war zone. It seems a little bit different to what you’re saying…some third country thing.
Simon Birmingham: No, no no. Again, Andrew, I encourage you to go back and have a look at the full context of what Peter was saying. You’re running on the last sentence of a longer answer, and the longer answer absolutely talked about all of those different aspects of security failings and failures under the government and that was context of Peter’s answer.
Tom Connell: Have you discussed those words since with-
Simon Birmingham: I don’t need to go and have a discussion. I know full well the consistency of the position that we have had from the earliest concerns that got raised about rushed visa processing and applications and the risks that they present.
Tom Connell: Simon Birmingham, we’ve got to leave it there. Thanks for your time.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks, guys. My pleasure.
[ENDS]