Topics: US request of Israel; Heckling of Penny Wong; PNG NRL team; Prime Minister’s house purchase;
04:15PM AEST
16 October 2024
Greg Jennett: Simon Birmingham. You’re back. Welcome to the program once again. Why don’t we start with the pressure being applied by the Biden administration to the Netanyahu government really asking for additional aid to be sent into Gaza? Or if that doesn’t happen, that Israel might suffer a possible suspension of military aid by mid-November? Does that strike you as a meaningful ultimatum? Do you really think a US administration in a lame duck period would limit or cut military aid to Israel?
Simon Birmingham: Well, Greg, it’s good to be with you today. I think there are a few things to unpack there. Firstly, that the Biden administration, nobody could quibble or doubt the commitment the US has shown to supporting Israel and its legitimate fight to remove the terrorist threats of Hamas and Hezbollah from its doorstep. And indeed, the Coalition has been rock solid in our position there. The US equally providing practical support for Israel’s defence, notably against missile strikes from Iran and those types of actions that present real risk and threat to the Israeli population and demonstrate the central role of Iran as the chief coordinator and attacker driving so much of this. But the humanitarian situation in Gaza is real. And clearly US intelligence and analysis is far deeper than what I would have available to me. And given the strength of messages that the US administration is giving to Israel, I think they are messages that should be heeded, should be acted upon, and that it is critical to see that humanitarian assistance flow into Gaza in accordance with those requests.
Greg Jennett: Okay, so you are supporting that ultimatum, if that’s what we’re calling it. But what significance do you place Simon Birmingham on this apparent deadline falling after the November 5th or here in Australia, November 6th, presidential election? Do you see that timing as related to US domestic politics?
Simon Birmingham: Greg, they are really matters for the United States as to how they assess their military support and the timings that they may set around any issues of reconsidering that. And they are legitimately matters for the US in how they engage with Israel. I think what’s clear is that the US has been appropriately steadfast in its support for Israel and its fight against terrorism. We absolutely back that and have been consistent ourselves the whole way through in doing so. But we’ve also been consistent from parliamentary motions past 12 months ago about the need for humanitarian support and assistance to be available. And it’s crucial that those innocent civilians in Gaza are facing circumstances that are hard for any of us really, to imagine. Do get that type of basic food, medicine, humanitarian assistance. And ultimately, though, what they need to see is for Hamas to agree to release hostages to agree to a ceasefire that can see terrorist capabilities dismantled, and give a chance for Gaza to see peace and rebuilding underway, not just the essential humanitarian needs provided.
Greg Jennett: Okay, so just to unpack one final element of that answer on the military aid side, if the US is to continue to remain steadfast as an ally and supporter of Israel, are you implying that it would not make good on any implied threat, even to cut off military aid?
Simon Birmingham: No, as I said, Greg, those are decisions for the United States. They’re not ones for Australia, let alone the opposition in Australia. But I am confident that the US wants to see an outcome where the terrorists are disabled and where Israel is defended and secure in the future, but also where humanitarian assistance is rightly provided to those who genuinely need it. And they are all outcomes that I would concur with and that we should all wish to see ultimately achieved.
Greg Jennett: All right, now. Penny Wong, you will have noticed, copped a severe heckling in a public address at the Uni of Tasmania last night from pro-Palestinian protesters. Dozens of interruptions. This was long in the planning by that university. Do you believe that Uni Tas or any other university in this country for that matter, have to meet a higher standard of screening if participants like the minister are to come and engage in what used to be considered traditional standards of civility and tolerance in an education setting?
Simon Birmingham: Greg, the footage that I’ve seen was clearly a degree of actions that were rude. They were disrespectful and inappropriate. Of course, there is a right to protest, and there’s a long history in Australian politics of people calling out the odd interjection giving the odd heckle. But of course, this was a continuous degree of disruption, that that was disrespectful. And it doesn’t matter what the political leanings, whether it’s Labor or Liberal or somebody else, it’s appropriate in those circumstances that the speaker be allowed to be heard and ultimately be able to get through their speech. And it’s sadly incumbent on the hosts, universities or others in this day and age to have to work with security and others to take the precautions, to try to give the maximum opportunity for people to be able to give those remarks. And sadly, we see with the extreme Greens and others a tendency to want to take protests too far. And in taking them too far, they ultimately cause disruption, disrespect in a whole range of ways, be it on the streets of our major cities, or to institutions simply trying to provide a platform and a forum for proper debate to occur rather than simply a protest.
Greg Jennett: Have you reviewed or curtailed your own involvement when invitations are issued to go to fora like this, because of the current Middle East policy environment?
Simon Birmingham: Greg, I think you certainly take elements of that into consideration. And there’s always degrees to which security advice or the like needs to be provided and should be heeded appropriately. But, you know, I was also an education minister a few years back and not without my degree of heckles-
Greg Jennett: I remember.
Simon Birmingham: Or entering university campuses through loading docks or other situations to avoid the odd protest. So, universities have a tradition and a culture there of protest, but that doesn’t negate the fact that any speaker should ultimately have the right to be heard when they are a guest at an institution invited to give a speech, and that make your point, but then let the event carry on.
Greg Jennett: Yeah, thanks for that reminder. Can I ask you also, Senator, about soft power diplomacy in the Pacific? You will have read that the impending deal for Papua New Guinea to add a rugby league team into the National Rugby League competition is close to being finalised and according to ABC reporting embedded in the negotiations, if not, the contract worth around $600 million, could be a security exclusivity clause that PNG not enter into any similar security pact with China. Is that a sound approach in your view?
Simon Birmingham: Greg, we’ll tread cautiously and look forward to receiving further briefings and information on this. Papua New Guinea, being our nearest neighbour and a key strategic partner in the region, is a relationship of immense importance to Australia when in government, the Coalition acted closely and worked closely and carefully with governments in Papua New Guinea to provide support in a range of ways to build indeed our influence and soft power and relations there. Also to respond in critical infrastructure areas such as telecommunications, and to ensure they were secured for PNG and the region. And we recognise the potential benefits of this project, but we want to ensure that we understand the totality of it, what it means in terms of the funding, and that it isn’t distracting from other key areas of Pacific investment and any other commitments or steps that are taken associated with it.
Greg Jennett: All right. You’re probably not privy to those details just now. Finally, you’re not in the market for any real estate, are you? Simon Birmingham.
Simon Birmingham: All Australians love to talk real estate, Greg.
Greg Jennett: All right, let’s do that then.
Simon Birmingham: No, I’m not planning on moving home any time soon.
Greg Jennett: Thank you. I thought I might just lay that out there amid some caucus unease. Your colleague Jane Hume has described the Prime Minister’s purchase of the $4 million house as tone deaf during a housing crisis. Agree?
Simon Birmingham: Look, Greg, my view is that my beef and our beef with the Prime Minister should be about his policies and how they’ve failed to get inflation under control, failed to get interest rates down, and are causing the cost of living crisis to go on for too many Australians. His personal investments are a matter for his private life.
Greg Jennett: All right, let’s wrap it up there. Simon Birmingham, always appreciate your involvement with the program. We’ll talk soon.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks, Greg. My pleasure.
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