Topics: Visa checks; NSW Liberals;
09:20AM AEST
16 August 2024
Laura Jayes: Welcome back. I am live in Adelaide, and this is a week that has seen debate rage in Canberra about the visa status applications for Palestinian refugees in Gaza and whether they should come to Australia. Joining me now here in Adelaide is Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Birmingham. Great to be in your town. Thank you for having me.
Simon Birmingham: Great to have you here, LJ.
Laura Jayes: Now to the serious issue that’s raged in Canberra this week. It certainly hasn’t brought the temperature down. Can we agree on that?
Simon Birmingham: Well, certainly the way in which the Government and others respond has been, has been to hyperventilate for some and of course, the Prime Minister to effectively mislead in the way in which he so selectively quoted the ASIO Director-General-
Laura Jayes: Just take me through that. What was left out?
Simon Birmingham: What was left out is the reality that not everybody is subject to full screening, and that the ASIO Director-General had been very clear in his interview. If certain trigger points are met, then screening occurs.
Laura Jayes: Yes, but-
Simon Birmingham: Anthony Albanese chose to leave that part out.
Laura Jayes: Sure. But isn’t the point that the 1300 or so refugees that come from Gaza have had ASIO screening? There are some 10,000 applications, 7000 have been rejected, 3000 have been or pending approval. So, are you saying all 10,000 need to go before ASIO, even if they’re rejected? Or are we talking about the 3000?
Simon Birmingham: No. What we’re saying is that qualifier shouldn’t be being applied, essentially, that you should be having full screening for all of them given the risk profile. That is what-
Laura Jayes: At what point in the process, I guess, is the question.
Simon Birmingham: Before a visa is issued and before they come to Australia. Now that is what occurred in relation to people coming from Syria. It’s what occurred in relation to people coming from Afghanistan, that third-country processing was set up so that there was the time to have all of that screening happening, rather than simply issuing a visitor visa in as little as one hour to somebody who is then eligible to travel to Australia.
Laura Jayes: Is the suggestion that there is a number of people among the 1300 that are in Australia that didn’t have ASIO screening. Are you satisfied that the 1300 people already here in Australia have had appropriate screening?
Simon Birmingham: There definitely seems to be a suggestion from the way in which the ASIO Director-General has answered the questions, that only some go through a more fulsome screening process. That there is that checkpoint, if you like. Our view is the risk is sufficiently high that you should have that thorough process undertaken for all the identity verification with the biometric checks, the full and thorough check in relation to their views. And our view is that there shouldn’t be any sympathisers of Hamas allowed through.
Laura Jayes: How do you define that?
Simon Birmingham: Well, how you define that is, of course, you make sure you have the thorough checks, you have interview processes, you have an ability-
Laura Jayes: But can you ignore the situation that is in Gaza right now, Senator? I mean, it is people are just trying to survive. How would you categorise and how would you define a Hamas sympathiser?
Simon Birmingham: Well, there’s a difference between believing very genuinely in Palestinian statehood, in, of course, supporting and believing in that cause and the well-being of the Palestinian people, and in being absolutely devastated by the loss of life and innocent suffering. Versus believing that there is a place for Hamas terrorist activities, believing that there is a justification for the October 7th terrorist attacks, there can never be a justification for those sorts of things.
Laura Jayes: So, if someone had posted on social media, for example, a Palestinian living in Gaza. Their home was perhaps bombed by Israel, and they were critical of Israel on social media. Would you define that as a Hamas sympathiser?
Simon Birmingham: Obviously all of these things depend on the detail, but merely being critical of the Israeli government. Of course not. That is, there are many people who are critical of the Israeli government, including many people in the vibrant democracy that is Israel who are critical of the Israeli government. But supporting the actions of Hamas and posting tweets or social media content, actually celebrating what happened on October 7th, yes, I would define that as a Hamas sympathiser and as somebody who we would not want to have in Australia.
Laura Jayes: Okay. We spoke to Dai Le on this program yesterday, and she was really triggered by the events in Parliament this week. She being a refugee herself, saying, you know, basically she brought the perspective of a refugee that is now settled in Australia, made a life here and become Australian, saying that she remembers at the time being, you know, painted as you know, someone who was not welcome in particular. Is there a risk that this debate is doing just that for the 1300 people there and their families who live in places like Western Sydney.
Simon Birmingham: Well, LJ, I certainly think we need to be very careful in terms of ensuring that people in Australia do feel welcome here. Those who have had proper screening, those who have visas to be able to stay and build a long-term life here. I shared a stage with Dai Le yesterday at a Vietnamese community event, reflecting on indeed the incredible contribution that community has made and so, so many others. Of course, I think though in many of those migrant communities, there are a couple of things they understand. The first is that places are limited. Australia is one of the most generous countries in the world for accepting refugees on a per capita basis, but there is still a cap and there are far, far, far more people who want to come than there are places available. So, we can-
Laura Jayes: Well, that’s not coming through this debate at the moment.
Simon Birmingham: We can afford to be extensive and exhaustive in terms of the security checking and ensuring that the people who we do bring into Australia, we have the utmost confidence in the safety, security and contribution they will make. But of course, beyond that, also making sure that all understand that they are welcome in those circumstances. But within those communities, I think they also understand that they want to see people who will be, as they have been, contributors to Australia, like people from all faiths, all races, all backgrounds have been. But of course, not those who present a security or terrorist threat.
Laura Jayes: Tanya Plibersek yesterday was on this show saying that by making these statements and setting the bar so high, there was actually a big political calculation in this. It was essentially scaring people for a political benefit for the Coalition. Do you believe there is an element of that?
Simon Birmingham: No, I don’t believe so at all. I think Peter Dutton was asked some questions. He responded very directly to those questions in terms of his views and our policy approach about the extensive nature of screening that should occur. Now, he’s been up front and clear. We’ve been consistent in that not just this week, but actually for quite some time in terms of being critical of the way these screenings have happened. The talk about the average of 24-hours for visas being issued, some in as little as one hour. That goes back months. In terms of the criticisms that we have been making about this process and the failures of the Albanese Government.
Laura Jayes: One final question. I’m going to ask you about the New South Wales Liberals.
Simon Birmingham: Can we go back to Middle East peace?
Laura Jayes: Well, yes. It might be on par with what is going on in New South Wales at the moment. There are recriminations. Absolutely. But this actually has really long-term effects. And a lot of Liberals have expressed this concern to me. If you don’t have a presence in the councils. This has ramifications for state and federal seats as well. I mean, this could really damage your chances of winning the next election because you need some of those critical seats in and around Sydney.
Simon Birmingham: It is one of those unusual things about New South Wales and Queensland that they have far more politicised local governments, certainly than we have in South Australia, where the Liberal Party doesn’t run candidates for local government and we have optional postal voting for local government here. Can I advocate perhaps dialling down local government and getting it to focus on the old three R’s of local government too? But clearly there is a significant failure that has occurred. And clearly, we need to see the campaign architecture and apparatus well and truly put in place ASAP to make sure that New South Wales is going to be able to fire on all cylinders for the federal campaign.
Laura Jayes: Yeah, well we’ll see. Probably not that far away either. Senator Simon Birmingham, great to see you.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks, LJ. Great to see you in Adelaide.
[ENDS]